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10:04:49 CASSIDY: You and I have talked at length about a variety of issues impacting American’s health. These have been candid conversations, and I very much appreciate your willingness to engage.
And there are many things you and I agree on. We’re in total agreement on the need to address ultra-processed food. To reduce obesity. And obesity, of course, the leading cause of chronic disease and therefore of shorter lifespans. And this will be a priority in this committee. And I look forward to collaborating with you if you are confirmed.
But it’s no secret: I have some reservations about your past positions on vaccines and a couple other issues.
…
10:07:37 CASSIDY: Now, Bobby, I’ve learned you got a tremendous following. My phone blows up with people who really follow you. And there are many who trust you more than they trust their own physician.
And so the question I need to have answered is, what will you do with that trust?
Whether it’s justified or not, and you may not want this to be the case, but I have constituents who partly credit you for their decision to not vaccinate their child. Now, that’s a real conversation.
And I’m hearing from them, and they want you confirmed. Now, you’re going to tell us this week, as you did, I think you’ll tell us today, as you did in Finance Committee yesterday, that you’re pro-vaccine.
So what will you tell the American mother? Will you tell her to vaccinate her child? Or to not? Or to have a conversation with a doctor, but for many, that will be permission to not vaccinate their child. We know that to be the case.
So your past of undermining confidence in vaccines with unfounded or misleading arguments concerns me. Can I trust that that is now in the past?
Can data and information change your opinion? Or will you only look for data supporting a predetermined conclusion?
This is imperative. You will have the responsibility to restore trust in our public health institutions in this position you have.
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10:15:52 KENNEDY: Cheryl and I were heartbroken last night to learn the tragic accident that took so many of our fellow Americans, including our service members.
We were in an apartment where we were able to see the rescue operations from our window.
Americans– Senator Marshall, please know that I will continue – continue to pray for you as I texted you last night, for those who were lost who called your state home, as well as Senators Kaine and Alsobrooks.
We appreciate the first responders and local officials who are working so hard. May God continue to be with us all, and all who are impacted, and those who continue to help with the recovery.
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10:22:36 KENNEDY: Before I conclude, I want to make sure this committee is clear about a few things.
News reports and many in the hearing yesterday have claimed that I’m anti-vaccine and anti-industry.
Well, I’m neither. I’m pro safety. I’m pro good science.
I worked for 40 years to raise awareness about mercury and other toxics in fish. And nobody called me anti-fish. All my kids are vaccinated.
I believe vaccines have saved millions of lives and play a critical role in healthcare.
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10:25:49 CASSIDY: Now, the context of what I’m about to ask is that there’s multiple studies establishing the safety of measles and hepatitis B vaccine. And specifically that they are not a cause of autism
In this position, and you have previously said yes.
But if you are approved to this decision– to this position, will you say unequivocally– will you reassure mothers unequivocally and without qualification that the measles and hepatitis B vaccines do not cause autism?
KENNEDY: Senator, I am not going into the agency with any preconceived–
CASSIDY: That’s kind of a yes or no question.
Because if– because the data is there. And that’s kind of a yes or no.
And I don’t mean to cut you off, but that really is a yes or no.
KENNEDY: If the data is there, I will absolutely do that.
CASSIDY: Now, there is the data, because I used to – I used to do hepatitis B, as I’ve said.
I know the data is there.
KENNEDY: Then I will be the first person. If you show me data, I will be the first person to assure the American people that they need to take those vaccines.
CASSIDY: Now, what concerns me is that you’ve cast doubt on some of these vaccines recently. I mean, like the last few years.
But the data, and I can quote some of it, the data has been there for a long time.
I’ve been out of the game. I’ve been in Congress for 16 years.And this data was in large measure generated before I came to Congress.
So my concern is that that, if you were making those claims and being so influential, I mean, your bully pulpit is incredible.
With that responsibility. That you never acquainted yourself with anything that might contradict that what you were previously saying.
So let me ask once more. If the data is brought to you, and these studies that have been out there for quite some time and they’ve been peer reviewed.
And it shows that these two vaccines are not associated with autism.
Will you ask, no, I need even more? Or will you say, no, I see this. It’s stood the test of time. And I unequivocally and without qualification say that this does not cause autism.
KENNEDY: Not only will I do that, but I will apologize for any statements that misled people otherwise.
CASSIDY: Thank you.
KENNEDY: Next. I just want to pledge to you that I will never stick on a point if somebody shows me data that says I’m wrong.
I know that’s an interpretation people have, but it’s absolutely wrong.
I think the science– and evidence-driven.
CASSIDY: I think the concern is how persuadable people are.
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10:29:15 CASSIDY: Do you commit that you’ll revise any CDC recommendations only based on peer review, consensus-based, widely accepted science.
In other words, not personal beliefs or the beliefs of any single person that you or your department may identify.
KENNEDY: Absolutely, Senator. I am not going to go into HHS and impose my preordained opinions on anybody at HHS.
I’m going to empower the scientists at HHS to do their job and make sure that we have good science that’s evidence-based, that’s replicatable, where they– the raw data is published.
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10:30:00 CASSIDY: Do you promise that FDA will not deprioritize or delay review and or approval of new vaccines, and that vaccine review standards will not change from historical norms?
KENNEDY: We will have the best vaccine standards with safety studies. And I will–
CASSIDY: That’s a little bit of a different answer than the question I asked.
Because what is the best could be in the eyes of the beholder.
So let me read again.
Promise that the FDA will not deprioritize or delay review and or approval of new vaccines, and that vaccine review standards will not change from historical norms?
KENNEDY: Yes.
…
10:30:53 SANDERS: There have been, as I understand it, dozens of studies done all over the world that make it very clear that vaccines do not cause autism.
Now, you just said, if I heard correctly, well, if the evidence is there.
The evidence is there. That’s it. Vaccines do not cause autism. Do you agree with that?
KENNEDY: As I said, I’m not going to go into HHS with any preordained–
SANDERS: I asked you a simple question, Bobby.
Studies all over the world say it does not. What do you think?
KENNEDY: Senator, if you show me those studies, I will absolutely, as I promised to Chairman Cassidy, I will apologize.
SANDERS: That is a very troubling response because the studies are there. Your job was to have looked at those studies as an applicant for this job.
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10:32:29 SANDERS: So my question to you is, were the scientists who told us that the COVID vaccine was imperative and President Trump, who told us that it was this great thing, where they right or were you right, when you told people that they should not take COVID shots.
KENNEDY: Senator, I filed that lawsuit after CDC recommended the vaccine for six-year-old children without any evidence that it would benefit them, and without testing on six-year-old children. And that was my reason for filing that lawsuit.
SANDERS: Was the vaccine, COVID vaccine, successful in saving millions of lives?
KENNEDY: I don’t know. We don’t have a good surveillance system, unfortunately.
SANDERS: We don’t know?
KENNEDY: I don’t think anybody can say that. If you show me science that says that–
SANDERS: You know, Bobby, you say if I show you? You’re applying for the job. I mean, clearly you should know this and that is, the scientific community has established that.
That COVID vaccines save millions of lives and you’re casting doubt.
That is really problematic.
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10:44:59 MURRAY: I do want to ask you a question about character. I still believe character matters and I want to let you respond to this.
You were accused of sexual harassment and assault by Eliza Cooney, who was first hired as a part-time babysitter by your family.
When you were confronted about this accusation, you said you were, quote, not a church boy. And that you, quote, have so many skeletons in my closet.
You then texted Ms. Cooney an apology and indicated you had no memory of what she described.
Mr. Kennedy, I’m asking you to respond to those accusations seriously in front of this committee.
Did you make sex advances towards Ms. Cooney without her consent?
KENNEDY: No, I did not. And that just story has been debunked.
MURRAY: But why did you apologize to her then?
KENNEDY: I apologized for something else.
MURRAY: Well, that’s not my understanding. Let me just ask you–
KENNEDY: All you have to read is the text which she published. It’s not for that.
MURRAY: That is not how I’ve read it. Are there any other instances where you have made sexual advances towards an individual without their consent? Just yes or no?
KENNEDY: No.
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10:46:27 MURRAY: Will you support the development and distribution of vaccines for the avian flu? Yes or no?
KENNEDY: For the avian flu? Yes.
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10:46:33 MURRAY: My time’s almost up, but having read a lot and listened a lot, I just want to remind all my colleagues that by voting to confirm Mr. Kennedy, we would be telling our constituents he’s worth listening to.
That alone could get people killed before he even lifts a finger, because he does not even need the levers of power to influence people, as we saw in Samoa All he needs is a megaphone.
To affirm his views by voting to confirm him as our highest health official, we should not mince words about what that would mean. When babies die from whooping cough because parents weren’t sure if the vaccine was safe, we will have to look them in the eye. When measles sweeps through schools, then hospitals, nursing wards, will this be worth it?
There are political realities. We all get that. But there’s also right and wrong. Fact and fiction.
And there’s also people staying healthy or dying pointlessly from diseases we can prevent because they thought Congress took its job vetting our health care secretary seriously.
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10:58:23 BALDWIN: The most widely used medication abortion drug, mifepristone, has been FDA approved for nearly 25 years.
More than 100 studies have confirmed that 99% of patients who took the abortion pill had no complications.
So with all of that, I can only conclude that you would commit to keep this science backed and proven medication on the market and accessible for women, is that correct?
KENNEDY: I’m going to, with mifepristone, President Trump has not chosen a policy.
And I will implement his policy.
BALDWIN: So regardless of the studies, regardless of the data, regardless of the science.
You’ve been talking about, show me the data, show me the studies?
KENNEDY: Well, if you–
BALDWIN: You would have that policy regardless of what the science says?
KENNEDY: Senator, the devil is in the details.
If you’re telling me 99% of women did okay, but 1% died, I would say that is not a beneficial–
BALDWIN: That is not what the studies show.
KENNEDY: I know, but you’re not showing me. I need those details from this study before– I can’t buy a pig in a poke.
Show me what the study says.
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11:10:48 SCOTT: You and I had a serious conversation about the importance of life, and I’m pro-life, a Christian, as you know.
And you said that you– you assured me that your deputies were going to be pro-life.
Is that still the case?
KENNEDY: I will implement President Trump’s policies. I serve at his pleasure.
But I share President Trump’s view that every abortion is a tragedy. I share–
SCOTT: My question was, are you having deputies within your– at HHS that will be pro-life?
KENNEDY: As I said, I can tell you exactly what I’m going to do. So there’s no mistake.
I’m going to implement President Trump’s policies. President Trump has told me he wants to end late-term abortion.
SCOTT: Are you hiring people who are pro-life in, at HHS?
KENNEDY: Yes, I am.
…
11:17:47 MRPHY: You said in 2013, Is it hyperbole to say that the people who run our vaccine programs should be in jail? They should be in jail.
To me, this is like Nazi death camps. Look at what it does to the families who participate in the vaccine program.
I can’t tell why somebody would do something like that. I can’t tell you why ordinary Germans participated in the Holocaust. I can’t tell you what was going on in their minds.
With respect to the pedophilia scandal, you said the pedophilia scandal in the Catholic Church is a perfect metaphor for what’s happening in the United States.
The vaccine program, it’s the same reason we had a pedophilia scandal in the Catholic Church, it’s because people were able to convince themselves that the institution of the church was more important than these little boys and girls who were being raped.
I don’t disagree with Senator Mullin. I don’t want an HHS secretary that’s not going to question science. I think it’s important to question science.
But you’re not questioning science. You’ve made up your mind. You’ve spent your entire career undermining America’s vaccine program. You make these purposeful comparisons to those that are administering the vaccine program to the Nazi executioners, to the people who covered up The Catholic Church’s pedophilia scandal, because you have made a decision that there is a comparison.
That there is evil in the vaccine program as there was evil in the pedophilia scandal and the Nazi death camps.
You aren’t exploring science. You have made up your mind. You’ve spent your entire career trying to undermine these programs.
It is the reason that these statements, these incredibly aggressive, over-the-top statements matter to us is because it just isn’t believable.
That when you become secretary tou are all of a sudden going to be consistent with science.
People who have spent their career saying these kinds of things, running the kinds of campaigns that you have run, don’t all of a sudden change their stripes.
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11:22:52 KENNEDY: Yes, I will.
And by the way, that rule is anti-science.
The most thorough meta review on gender affirming care has come out in the Cass report which reports really catastrophic impacts on children. And that is science. It’s a meta review of all the existing scientific studies.
But, you know, even more just from a common sense, if you’re a patient, do you really want somebody performing surgery on you who is morally opposed to that surgery?
It doesn’t make any sense. We need to embrace diversity in this country.
Are people who believe that’s important? I respect them. We should hear them out. We should debate. We should have a congenial conversation.
There are also people who believe that it is an atrocity.
And they need to be listened to too. And we need to embrace diversity and make room for diversity in this country. And not force people to do things that are against their conscience.
HAWLEY: And let me just point out that on this rule, what’s particularly pernicious about it is we’re talking about gender transition surgeries, gender transition care on minor children. This rule purported to preempt all state law. So in states like mine and many others where the voters have said, we don’t want gender transition procedures performed on minors. The Biden administration attempted to use federal money and force pediatricians to do it anyway.
So I’m glad to hear you say you’ll rescind that rule. I think it’s terrific for the safety of children.
KENNEDY: And Senator, I would add that we don’t let children drink. We don’t let them drive an automobile. Because they have bad judgment.
They are flooded with hormones. Their brains are still in formation. Their sexuality is still in formation.
To allow them to make judgments about, that are going to have life-changing, forever implications for the rest of their life at that age is unconscionable, particularly in light of the Cass report.
HAWLEY: I’m glad to hear you say that. Let me ask you a question about NIH research, if I may. I know this is something that you care a lot about. Under the first Trump presidency–
KENNEDY: And I do want to add that people who have gender differences should be respected. They should be loved.
But loving them does not– sometimes love means saying no to people.
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11:25:38 HAWLEY: Will you reinstate President Trump’s policy that ensures that no federal research and no federal tax dollars is conducted on fetal tissue taken from elective abortions?
KENNEDY: Yes.
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11:28:23 HASSAN: Now, some of you are new to this committee and new to the Senate, so you may not know that I am the proud mother of a 36-year-old young man with severe cerebral palsy. And a day does not go by. When I don’t think about what did I do when I was pregnant with him that might have caused the hydrocephalus that has so impacted his life.
So please do not suggest that anybody in this body of either political party doesn’t want to know what the cause of autism is. Do you know how many friends I have with children who have autism?
The problem with this witness’s response on the autism cause and the relationship to vaccines is because he’s relitigating and churning settled science so we can’t go forward and find out what the cause of autism is and treat these kids and help these families.
Mr. Kennedy, that first autism study rocked my world. And like every mother, I worried about whether, in fact, the vaccine had done something to my son.
And you know what? It was a tiny study of about 12 kids. And over time, the scientific community studied and studied and studied and found that it was wrong.
And the journal retracted the study. Because sometimes science is wrong. We make progress. We build on the work. And we become more successful.
And when you continue to sow doubt about settled science, it makes it impossible for us to move forward.
So that’s what the problem is here. It’s the relitigating and rehashing and continuing to sow doubt so we can’t move forward.
And it freezes us in place.
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11:30:36 HASSAN: During yesterday’s hearing, you really showed a lack of knowledge about Medicare and Medicaid.
So what is Medicare Part A?
KENNEDY: Medicare Part A is mainly for primary care or physicians and then Medicare–
HASSAN: No, so it is about– Medicare Part A is senior’s coverage for inpatient hospital care.
What’s Medicare Part B?
KENNEDY: For physicians and doctors, Medicare Part D–
HASSAN: That is coverage for outpatient care and home health.
So what is Medicare Part C?
KENNEDY: Medicare Part C is a– is a program where it’s the full menu of all the services, A, B, C, and D for Medicare.
HASSAN: It is Medicare Advantage, which the private– it’s the private insurance option for seniors on Medicare.
KENNEDY: Exactly.
HASSAN: So Mr. Kennedy, you want us to confirm you bo be in charge of Medicare, but it appears that you don’t know the basics of this program.
So let’s turn to Medicaid.
KENNEDY: I just explained the basics.
HASSAN: No, I had to correct you on several things.
KENNEDY: You just–
HASSAN: Mr. Kennedy, my time is limited, and I hope the chair will give me a couple of more minutes.
KENNEDY: Is this a question senator?
HASSAN: Yes. Medicaid. Let’s turn to Medicaid.
KENNEDY: –didn’t give me time to answer one.
HASSAN: Medicaid, you said yesterday to Senator Cassidy, Medicaid is fully paid bought for by the federal government, and it’s not fee for service.
That statement is false. Do you now understand that that statement is false, yes or no?
KENNEDY: That Medicaid is paid for by the federal government? I believe that it is–
HASSAN: You said it is fully paid for. Medicaid, in fact, sir, is a federal state partnership–
KENNEDY: The states has a partnership. That’s right.
HASSAN: So you were wrong yesterday, so you’re acknowledging that that statement was false, right?
KENNEDY: I mis-stated something.
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11:38:38 KIM: I wanted to just start by asking you if you support medically assisted treatment to help people get off of opioid addiction?
KENNEDY: Yes, I do.
KIM: Do you think it’s safe and would you consider it to be the gold standard of the approach?
KENNEDY: You know, the Cochrane collaboration, which is the most prestigious scientific research organization, has said that the gold standard is, has found in studies, the gold standard is 12-step programs.
You need an entire retin– entire menu of treatments because many addicts will not respond immediately at least to 12-step programs.
And for many of them, suboxone and other and even methadone are critical interventions that save lives, that get addicts off the street, and they should be available as a treatment option.
I wouldn’t describe them as gold standard, but I would describe them as medically necessary.
KIM: Well, this is something, look, I know we all take this very seriously, in terms of the plight of opioid addiction in our country.
And that’s something that I hope we can recognize. We need to lift up more and more.
I mean, NIH has said over and over again, not enough people are doing it. In fact, an NIH published study does call it the gold standard of treating for opioid use disorder.
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11:40:01 KIM: You talk a lot about obesity. I wanted to get your thoughts, if you support Wegovy, Ozempic, other similar types of GLP-1 drugs to fight obesity.
KENNEDY: GLP-1 drugs, the GLP drugs, the class of drugs are miracle drugs.
But I do not think they should think the first frontline intervention for six-year-old kids, for whom they are currently, that is the standard of practice now.
If every American who qualifies for GLP by being overweight, 74% of our population ask for them, and the federal government was paying for it, it would cost over a trillion dollars a year.
It would double the insurance costs for employers in this country. And it would be a tsunami. And they have a lot of side effects.
KIM: You said you support it, but that you don’t see it being the tool of choice for especially young kids?
KENNEDY: Exactly. For people who have morbid obesity, for people who have diabetes, absolutely.
But– and they shouldn’t be prescribed alone without also prescriptions for exercise because otherwise they eat away at muscle and they’re counterproductive.
They go after muscle first.
They have all kinds of bad side effects about half the people on GLP is going to offer them after two years, and then there’s problems when you get off them.
…
11:43:05 KIM: You said earlier in response on avian flu, you would continue the investments, that you would support vaccine development.
I just want to clarify, does that mean you support investments in mRNA vaccine research and development?
KENNEDY: I’m not going to pick a vaccine right now. I need to look at all the data. I need to look at the safety data and advocacy data.
But I’m going to continue research on every kind of vaccine.
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11:50:06 BLUNT ROCHESTER: In yesterday’s hearing, you did not seem to know anything about EMTALA. Even though I raised it with you during our meeting last week.
So I’ll give you another opportunity. Yes or no, do you believe that a person presenting to an emergency room with a severe illness should have any type of emergency care needed to save their life?
KENNEDY: Any American who–
BLUNT ROCHESTER: Yes or no?
KENNEDY: I’m answering the question.
BLUNT ROCHESTER: Yes or no was the question.
KENNEDY: Under the law, every American who presents to an emergency room must be treated. And I enforce that law.
And I believe that’s the right thing to do.
BLUNT ROCHESTER: Do you agree that a person who is experiencing severe pregnancy complications should be able to receive emergency care to save their life if that care is an abortion?
KENNEDY: My understanding of President Trump’s policy is that–
BLUNT ROCHESTER: I’m not asking you President Trump’s policy. I’m asking you what do you– what do you believe?
KENNEDY: Yeah, if it’s necessary to save the life of the mother.
Of course, yes.
BLUNT ROCHESTER: Okay, do you commit to ensuring that pregnant women will have access to all necessary emergency care, including an abortion if it is required to save their life or preserve their life?
KENNEDY: If it’s required to save their life.
BLUNT ROCHESTER: And would you agree that the ability to provide quality emergency care for pregnant women is essential to preventing maternal mortality?
KENNEDY: Providing care for pregnant women? We should be providing care for pregnant women. President Trump wants to do that.
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12:01:51 KENNEDY: I’ve spoken to President Trump about negotiations.
He’s absolutely committed to negotiating lower drug prices.
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12:18:10 MURKOWSKI: There’s been considerable discussion here about many issues. Certainly a lot about vaccines.
I care deeply about making sure that our vaccines are safe, the efficacy of them, the availability of them, how we disseminate them is particularly important in a very, very rural state like mine. You have experience there. You understand that.
I am particularly attracted by the focus on chronic diseases.
We know that if we can do a better job with chronic diseases, maybe some of the other things that we are susceptible to in the infectious diseases area we’re able to perhaps pull back a little bit on that.
But our reality is in order to make this country healthy again, it is a focus on everything. It is the prevention. The necessity of coming up with these life-saving vaccines that are going to be so critically important. It is personal care. It is food. It is exercise. It is all of the above.
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12:20:05 MURKOWSKI: And so we’re pulling back then on, again, these areas where we can work to prevent some of these deadly diseases that we thought we had wiped out years ago.
We have dramatically reduced diseases in my state like hep A and B and meningitis. We’re just now getting through a tough bout of whooping cough. That came around to the state.
Now there’s a scare in the peninsula, in Alaska, about a measles outbreak. So we can’t be going backwards with our vaccinations that will allow for this level of prevention and protection.
So I’m asking you, you are clearly an influencer. You are clearly an influencer. You would not be in this position today.
But you can see how your podium, your platform, your voice can influence so many.
So I am asking you on the issue of vaccines specifically to please convey, convey with a level of authority and science but also with a level of conviction and free of conflict and free of political bias, that these are measures that we should be proud of as a country. Proud of as a country.
Look to what President Trump was able to do with a COVID vaccine. It was extraordinary and it did save lives.
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12:25:50 ALSOBROOKS: You talked about bad science and bad scientists. And in fact, you specifically said to me, in response to my question, that you intend to replace the bad scientists with the good scientists.
And so I want to ask you, in your opinion, what makes a scientist or a doctor qualified to serve at the National Institutes of Health.
KENNEDY: A scientist who’s devoted to empirical methodology, to evidence-based science, a scientist who understand the importance of replication, importance of publishing raw data and being open and transparent about itThe importance of publishing peer review.
We have, NIH has overseen over the past several years, the decline, the precipitous decline in American health.
There’s 91,000 people at HHS. And are you suggesting that some of them should not be held responsible for that decline? They were in charge of protecting our health. Let me just–
Let me just finish–
ALSOBROOKS: Well, let me just say this because I only have three minutes left. I don’t set the rules here, but I ask the questions.
And the question is really whether you intend, as you said, to substitute essentially your judgment for the judgment of these professional scientists and doctors?
KENNEDY: I’m not going to substitute my judgment for science. Of course, I’m not going to do that. What I’m going to do–
Listen, the New York Times just did an article last week talking about the fraud, the 20-year fraud, 800 fraudulent studies produced by NIH on amyloid plaques and not allowing any other hypothesis about the cause of Alzheimer’s disease.
ALSOBROOKS: Well, how will you decide, Mr. Kennedy, which scientist are bad scientists. Are they the ones who disagree with you?
KENNEDY: The ones who are corrupt. The ones who have been doing science like the amyloid plaque studies that were fraudulent.
ALSOBROOKS: Well, these doctors– let me ask you a question. Do you have a medical degree?
KENNEDY: Do I? No.
ALSOBROOKS: Okay, let me go to the next question.
The Heritage Fund has compiled a watch list of federal employees to go after federal staff.
Is there a watch list for federal staff at HHS?
KENNEDY: Not that I know of.
ALSBROOKS: Have you or has anyone in the administration developed a list of career scientists or federal staff that you would target for termination?
KENNEDY: Not that I know of.
…
12:29:16 ALSOBROOKS: And finally, I want to ask you. I have a– you said to– you were on a show on February 26, 2021, an interview with Dr. Judy Mickovitz, where you said the following, and I quote.
We should not be giving black people the same vaccine schedule that’s given to whites because their immune system is better than ours.
Can you please explain what you meant?
KENNEDY: There’s a series of studies, I think most of them by Poland, that show that the particular antigens, that Blacks have a much stronger reaction.
There’s differences in reaction to different products by different races.
ALSOBROOKS: So I have 17 seconds left. Let me just ask you then. So what different vaccine schedule would you say I should have received?
What different vaccine schedule? Should I have received?
KENNEDY: The Poland article suggests Blacks need fewer antigens. You can get the same measles vaccine–
ALSOBROOKS: This is so dangerous.
Mr. Kennedy, with all due respect, that is so dangerous.
Your voice would be a voice that parents would listen to. That is so dangerous.
I will be voting against your–
KENNEDY: The truth is the science–
ALSOBROOKS: Your views are dangerous to our state and to our country.
KENNEDY: I mean, do you think science is dangerous, senator? This is published, peer-reviewed studies.
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12:35:11 KENNEDY: Senator, you and I have talked about this issue.
I’ve had Lyme disease. I lived in the epicenter of Lyme disease. Every member of my family and my immediate family has had Lyme disease.
I had a son whose face was paralyzed for a year. I have a son today who has been suffering with devastating effects from Lyme disease for two years.
There’s nobody who will fight harder to find a vaccine or a treatment for Lyme disease than me.
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12:36:30 CASSIDY: First, a couple more commit type questions.
If you are confirmed, do you commit that you will not work to impound, divert, or otherwise reduce any funding appropriated by Congress for the purpose of vaccination programs?
KENNEDY: Yes.
CASSIDY: And do you commit that you will not impose new grant conditions outside of congressional direction for state, local, or global entities that in any way limits, restricts, or rescinds access to vaccines or vaccine promotion programs?
KENNEDY: Yes.
…
12:39:09 Kennedy: Now, this is from 2014. And it has a whole bunch of articles it references.
And then I got a text from a former employee of the NIH. I emphasize the former, who says that early in President Trump’s term, you and colleagues sent 90 papers for review by people at NIH.
They felt like these, the NIH folks felt that without exception they were severely lacking methodologically and or found that they indeed showed the safety of these vaccines.
We tried to engage Mr. Kennedy, but his colleagues refused to acknowledge the expertise of dozens of NIH scientists we made about those papers.
…
12:39:53 CASSIDY: Now, you’re a smart guy. You’re reading the medical literature and you’re coming up with the recent medical literature on certain issues.
But here is both an older article. Summarizing lots of older articles that have come out since the original refuted Wakefield article in the Lancet regarding measles and autism.
And here is somebody who is somebody who, you know he said, he said, but somebody who said that previously you’ve had this presented to you.
So back to me. I’m a doc trying to understand.
Convince me that you will become the public health advocate. But not just churn old information so that there’s never a conclusion, as Senator Hassan suggested. But that will become the influencer for people to believe, no, there’s 1.25 million kids studied and there’s no autism associated with measles.
You tell me, you see what my question is in there.
KENNEDY: Senator. I’m going to be an advocate for a strong science.
You show me those scientific studies. And you and I can meet about it. And there are other studies as well, and I’d love to show those to you.
There was a study that came out last week of 47,000 nine-year-olds in the Medicaid system in Florida.
I think a Louisiana scientist called Mawson that shows the opposite.
So there are other studies out. I just want to follow the science.
And I will do, if the science says, and I am wrong about what I’ve said in the past. As I said, I will publicly apologize.
There’s many times I’ve been wrong about science. If you look at my Instagram account, when I’m wrong, I apologize for it. And I say I was wrong. I don’t have any problem.
Science is a process of challenging hypotheses with new evidence. And, you know, scientists have to be able to admit when they’re wrong.
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12:42:10 KENNEDY: The Institute of Medicine has said repeatedly in 2013, 2017, when they investigated this, has asked CDC to do certain studies, animal studies, bench studies, observational studies, studies of the vaccine safety data link.
CDC has not done that. I want them to do that, and I want the best science.
I can guarantee you on my word of honor, and if you show me science that says that I’m wrong, I’m going to say I was wrong. I don’t have any problem.
There’s nothing that would make me happier.
We need to be able to look at the science and get IOM involved, the National Academy of Sciences. They’re the ultimate arbiter of safety.
And you know, one of the things we need to do, I think, is a subject that we haven’t talked about here.
Why don’t we know what’s causing this epidemic? Why hasn’t the CDC been looking at other hypotheses determine the etiology of why we’ve had this dramatic thousand percent increase in this disease that is destroying our kids? It is probably the biggest issue. Why don’t we know the answer after 30 years of steady rises in autism rates.
I don’t really know the answer to that. We should know the answer.
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12:46:14 SANDERS: You have said the COVID vaccine was the deadliest vaccine ever made. End of quote.
Was the COVID vaccine the deadliest vaccine ever made?
KENNEDY: The reason I said that, Senator Sanders, is because there were more reports on the VAERS system, on the vaccine adverse event reporting system, which is the only surveillance system– that and V-safe.
And there were more reports of injuries and deaths than any other, than all of the other vaccines combined.
SANDERS: But was it the– scientists said it saved three million lives.
KENNEDY: –according to VAERS.
I don’t know, because we don’t have a good surveillance system.
SANDERS: So you disagree with the scientific community that–
KENNEDY: I’m agnostic because we don’t have the science to make that determination.
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12:54:38 CASSIDY: Now, my responsibility is to learn try and determine if you can be trusted to support the best public health.
A worthy movement called MAHA to improve the health of Americans or to undermine it, always asking for more evidence and never accepting the evidence that is there.
I looked at the article from Dr. Mawson, and it seems to be– have some issues. I’ll just put that to the side.
And that is why I’ve been struggling with your nomination There are issues where, man, ultra-processed food, obesity, we are simpatico. We’re completely aligned.
And as someone who has discussed immunizations with thousands of people, I understand that mothers want reassurance that the vaccine their child is receiving is necessary safe and effective. We agree on that point, the two of us.
But we’ve approached it differently. And I think I can say that I’ve approached it using the preponderance of evidence to reassure, and you have approached using selected evidence to cast doubt.
Now, put differently, we’re about the same age. Does a 70-year-old man, 71-year-old man who has spent decades criticizing vaccines and who’s financially vested in finding fault with vaccines, can he change his attitudes and approach? Now that he’ll have the most important position influencing vaccine policy in the United States?
Will you continue what you have been or will you overturn a new leaf at age 70?
I recognize, man, if you come out unequivocally vaccines are safe. It does not cause autism. That would have an incredible impact. That’s your power.
So what’s it going to be? Will it be using the credibility to support lots of articles?
Or will it be using credibility to undermine? And I got to figure that out for my vote.
Now, let’s be political. I’m a Republican. I represent the amazing state of Louisiana. And as a patriotic American, I want President Trump’s policies to succeed in making America and Americans more secure, more prosperous, healthier.
But if there’s someone that is not vaccinated because of policies or attitudes you bring to the department, and there’s another 18-year-old who dies of a vaccine-preventable disease, helicoptered away, God forbid, dies, it’ll be blown up in the press.
The greatest tragedy will be her death.
But I can also tell you an associated tragedy, well, that will cast a shadow over President Trump’s legacy, which I want to be the absolute best legacy it can be. So that’s my dilemma, man. And you may be hearing from me over the weekend.
[3;27;06] Sen. Smith
Mr. Kennedy, do you intend to give research on bird flu ‘a break’?
Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
No. I intend to devote the appropriate resources to preventing pandemics. That’s a central part of my job.
Sen. Smith
What do you think is causing the avian influenza?
Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
I think the H5N1 virus is.
…
Robert F. Kennedy Jr. [3;05;26]
The gold standard means real scientific research, with replication of studies, which very rarely happens now at NIH.
We should be giving at least 20% of the NIH budgets to replication.
We should have to make sure that all the science is published with the raw data. We should make sure the peer reviews are also published.
…
Robert F. Kennedy Jr. [2;51;10]
Senator, I don’t believe that I ever compared the CDC to Nazi death camps.
I support the CDC. My job is not to dismantle or harm the CDC.
My job is to empower the scientists, if I’m privileged to be confirmed.
…
Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
There’s nothing I’m going to do that is going to harm CDC. I want to make sure that our science is gold standard science, so that it’s free from–
That same government oversight investigation committeee, of the panels, the ACIP panel, within CDC. I think 97% of the people on it had conflicts.
I don’t believe that that’s right. I think we need to end those conflicts, and make sure that scientists are doing unobstructed science.
…
Robert F. Kennedy Jr. [2;54;48]
That directive made sure that no public health and only non-essential travel and mass communications were temporarily suspended, pending the confirmation of a new HHS secretary.
This is standard operating procedure for every administration.
…
Robert F. Kennedy Jr. [2;22;31]
I will protect stem cell research.
Stem cell research today can be done on umbilical cords, and you don’t need fetal tissue.
Sen. Cantwell
You’ll protect the laws that are on the books today? And the research that’s done?
Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
My job is, senator, to enforce the laws.
…
Robert F. Kennedy Jr. [2;28;11]
I believe that Medicaid is a critical program, but that it’s not working as well as it ought to be.
And President Trump has asked me to make it– to make it work better, that most Americans are not happy with it.
The premiums are too high, the deductibles are too high. And everybody’s getting sicker. Too much money is going to the insurance industry.
…
Robert F. Kennedy Jr. [2;32;48]
I’m going to bring a native, and for the first time in history, into my central office.
That all the major decisions in my office will be– he will have– we have interviewed a candidate, a very, very good candidate that will have direct impact on all the major offices.
…
Sen. Lujan [2;33;15]
Will you commit to finalizing the Congressionally mandated FDA guidance to increasing clinical trial diversity?
Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Yes.
Sen. Lujan
I appreciate that. Will you commit to reinstating all of the pages that were eliminated and people that were fired from this administration that have this responsibility?
Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
I cannot commit to that because I don’t know who they are–
I’ll commit to working with you to make sure those positions are adequately staffed.
…
Robert F. Kennedy Jr. [1;48;40]
My approach to administration to HHS, as I said before senator, is radical transparency.
Democrats, Republicans ought to be able to come in and get information that was generated at taxpayer expense, that is owned by the American taxpayer.
They shouldn’t get redacted documents.
Public health agencies should be transparent. And we– if we want Americans to restore trust in the public health agencies, we need transparency.
…
Sen. Warner [1;03;40]
Will you commit not to fire anyone in the health arena who currently works on protecting Americans from cyber attacks in their health care files?
Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
I will commit to not firing anybody who’s doing their job.
Sen. Warner
Based on your opinion? Based upon your opinion, or your political agenda, or Mr. Trump’s political agenda?
Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Based upon my opinion.
…
Robert F. Kennedy Jr. [41;58]
President Trump has personally spoken to me about locating those 300,000 children who disappeared over the last four years.
Sen. Cornyn
I don’t think anybody has a fully accurate number, but it’s hundreds of thousands, I agree.
Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
And many of them we know have been sex trafficked and childhood slavery, and we- it is a blight on America’s moral authority, and we need to find those kids.
…
Sen. Cornyn [44;58]
And I’d like to know whether you support the objectives and goals of PEPFAR and would you work with me and my colleagues to make sure that this program continues to provide life-saving antiviral drugs to people who are most in need?
Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
I absolutely support PEPFAR and I will happily work with you to strengthen the program.
…
Robert F. Kennedy Jr. [26;26]
Most importantly, we need to use, deploy NIH and FDA to doing the research to understand the relationship between these different food additives and chronic disease, so that Americans understand it and make sure that Americans are aware of it.
I don’t want to take food away from anybody. If you like a cheeseburger, a McDonald’s cheeseburger, a Diet Coke, which my boss loves, you should be able to get them. If you want to eat Hostess Twinkies, you should be able to do that.
But you should know what the impacts are on your family and on your health.
…
Robert F. Kennedy Jr. [34;09]
I support the measles vaccine. I support the polio vaccine.
I will do nothing as HHS secretary that makes it difficult or discourages people from taking either of those vaccines.
[1;08;03] Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
I’m going to support President Trump’s policies on Title X. I agree with President Trump that every abortion is a tragedy.
I agree with him that we cannot be a moral nation if we have 1.2 million abortions a year. I agree with him that the states should control abortion.
President Trump has told me that he wants to end late-term abortions. And that he wants to protect conscience exemptions and that he wants to end federal funding for abortions here or abroad. That’s Title X.
I’m going to serve at the pleasure of the president. I’m going to implement his policies.
…
[1;24;13] Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
I think it’s immoral to have a policy where patients are not allowed to report adverse events and where doctors are discouraged from doing that.
President Trump has asked me to study the safety of mifepristone. He has not yet taken a stand on how to regulate it.
Whatever he does, I will implement those policies.
And I will work with this committee, make those policies make sense.
…
[1;11;56] Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
We need to know what adverse events are. We need to understand the safety of every drug, mifepristone and every other drug.
And President Trump has made it clear to me that one of the things he is not taking a position yet on is mifepristone, a detailed position.
But he’s made it clear to me that he wants me to look at safety issues, and I’ll ask NIH and FDA to do that.
…
[01;32;27] Sen. Cortez-Masto
What authority do you have over this as the director of HHS?
Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
What authority do I have?
Sen. Cortez-Masto
Yeah, to enforce the law?
Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
In what regards?
Sen. Cortez-Masto
To make sure that a hospital that receives payment from Medicare is ensuring that they’re providing the necessary emergency care to patients when they present.
It’s actually the EMTALA law.
So what authority as HHS director do you have with respect to EMTALA?
Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
My understanding is that I have budgetary power and that it’s pretty much limited to that.
But if you tell me I have another authority, I don’t even think that we have a law enforcement branch at HHS?
Sen. Cortez-Masto
Well, let me tell you, you do. Actually, you do. And that’s CMS.
CMS actually investigates complaints of EMTALA violations, as well as the Health and Human Services Inspector General, who, by the way, was just recently fired by Donald Trump.
So you will be enforcing EMTALA laws. And it’s important that you understand their impact and don’t play politics with the patient presenting at the ER based on a position that this administration has taken.
“Today, we received clear signals that the prolife movement can work with RFK Junior. Acknowledging that every abortion is a tragedy left my team applauding. RFK Jr. calling for the review of safety standards around Mifeprex and saying he is against fetal stem cell research reveals this is a man aware of the need for serious change in the status quo around the protection of life and children.”
“We were encouraged by the questions asked and the answers given. We look forward to tomorrow’s hearing.”
A TB outbreak in Texas is generally defined as a situation where there are more TB cases than expected within a geographic area or population during a particular time period, and there is evidence of recent transmission of M. tuberculosis among those cases. Any TB cluster with 10 or more cases related via molecular sequencing is considered a Large Outbreak of TB in the US (or LOTUS), as defined by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
The largest outbreak in Texas in recent years is a cluster in southeast Texas (Beaumont – Jefferson County). Since 2016, there have been 81 cases in this outbreak. Provisionally, there were 24 cases in 2024; however, this number is subject to change as more data is reported.
Cases in this outbreak can be characterized as primarily US-born (93%) with some history of substance use (47%). Over half (55%) have drug-resistance to isoniazid, one of the primary drugs used to treat tuberculosis. Additionally, eight cases in this cluster were diagnosed when they were less than 15 years of age, with six of those 5 years old or less. Nine cases, including one child, died while being treated or were dead at diagnosis.
Since 2022, the largest new confirmed tuberculosis outbreak in California included 14 cases. The outbreak was identified as meeting surveillance criteria for a confirmed outbreak in 2023. It included cases spanning 2020-2024. It was centered in Long Beach. https://longbeach.gov/press-releases/official-city-of-long-beach-statement-regarding-public-health-emergency-in-response-to-local-tuberculosis-outbreak-risk-to-population-at-large-remains-low/
The case of H5N9 confirmed in backyard ducks at a facility in California was a reassortment of the H5N1 D1.1 virus that has been circulating in U.S. birds. The finding was not unexpected, as it is not uncommon to see reassortments and ducks are reservoir hosts for influenza A viruses. APHIS reported the detection to the World Organisation for Animal Health (WOAH), as is done for all cases of HPAI in domestic birds in the United States. APHIS will continue to conduct comprehensive epidemiological investigations and enhanced surveillance in response to detections of HPAI and will continue reporting cases to WOAH.
The ongoing tuberculosis (TB) disease outbreak in Kansas is not the largest outbreak in U.S. history.
A 2015-2017 outbreak response detected more than 170 cases of TB disease and over 400 cases of inactive TB.
In 2021, a nationwide outbreak of TB disease involving 113 patients occurred after surgical implantation of contaminated bone allografts.
Four CDC staff are providing on-site assistance including contact investigation, testing and screening, and working with community leaders on health education.
Thank you for reaching out to our office regarding the current tuberculosis outbreak in the Kansas City, Kan. Metro area.
The current Kansas City, Kan. Metro tuberculosis (TB) outbreak is the largest documented outbreak in U.S. history, presently (since the 1950’s, when the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) started monitoring and reporting TB cases). This outbreak is still ongoing, which means that there could be more cases. The Tuberculosis Outbreak page on our website is where the current case counts are updated each week and general information on TB can be accessed.
We are working with and following the guidance of the CDC.
As of Jan. 24, 2025, there are 67 individuals, including 60 in Wyandotte County and seven (7) in Johnson County, currently being treated for confirmed active TB related to this outbreak. There are 79 confirmed latent TB cases, which include 77 in Wyandotte County and two (2) in Johnson County. Cases related to the outbreak were first reported in January 2024.
Last year, KDHE reported 79 active and 213 latent, outbreak and non-outbreak, TB cases in Wyandotte and Johnson counties (active cases: Wyandotte 65, Johnson 16; latent cases: Wyandotte 124, Johnson 89). Those 2024 case counts are still provisional, as they will be reviewed and confirmed officially by the CDC near the end of March 2025. In 2023, the CDC recorded 46 active TB cases in Kansas.
There are two reported TB deaths in 2024 associated with this outbreak.
In an effort to provide efficient and quality care to those individuals affected by the outbreak, KDHE assumed responsibility for the coordination and distribution of testing, treatment and medical consultation in Wyandotte County.
TB is an infectious disease that most often affects the lungs and is caused by a type of bacteria. It spreads through the air when infected people cough, speak, or sing. While there is a very low risk of infection to the general public in these communities, KDHE is working to ensure that patients are receiving appropriate treatment, which will limit the ability to spread this disease and prevent additional cases from occurring.
According to CDC, the Bacillus Calmette-Guérin (BCG) vaccine is not generally recommended for use in the United States because of the low risk of infection with Mycobacterium tuberculosis (M. tuberculosis), the variable effectiveness of the vaccine against adult pulmonary TB, and the vaccine’s potential interference with tuberculin skin test reactivity. https://www.cdc.gov/tb/publications/factsheets/prevention/bcg.pdf
SFDPH has completed its investigation, which included interviewing and assessing close contacts and the source of exposure in this case is unknown. No additional cases have been identified and there remains no evidence of human-to-human transmission. The serology study is being conducted by the CDC and is in progress. We do not expect the results of the serology study to be available for at least a month.
Just wanted to check in to see if it is still accurate that ADPH is actively working with CDC to investigate the reports. I wasn’t sure if the recent communications “pause” at CDC has interrupted that.
…
This is an ongoing active investigation, and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is involved.
HHS has issued a pause on mass communications and public appearances that are not directly related to emergencies or critical to preserving health. This is a short pause to allow the new team to set up a process for review and prioritization. There are exceptions for announcements that HHS divisions believe are mission critical, but they will be made on a case-by-case basis.
Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2025 2:16 PM Subject: PACCARB Meeting is cancelled
…
Dear PACCARB Meeting Registrant –
The 27th Public Meeting of the Presidential Advisory Council for Combating Antibiotic-Resistant Bacteria scheduled for Tuesday, January 28 and Wednesday, January 29 is canceled, as the new Administration considers its plan for managing federal policy and public communications. We will keep you apprised of any updates or changes. We apologize for any inconvenience.
Thank you for being a valued member of our PACCARB community.
Eric Deeble, USDA [00:32:44]
We are working with our FDA colleagues in order to determine whether or not any of the products that may be implicated as ingredients in pet food that was determined to have H5N1 virus present in it was a product of an FSIS inspected facility.
Obviously, a great deal of protein that is produced is produced outside of FSIS inspected facilities, and is never intended for human consumption.
I will say that birds from affected flocks that are depopulated as part of USDA’s efforts to control H5N1 are not permitted in any food product at all.
They are most frequently composted on site as part of the efforts to mitigate the spread of the virus.
…
Alex Turner, USDA [00:52:26]
I would guess one thing we saw with this winter that was a little bit different in terms of the cadence and the pace of poultry infections was really the timing of when wild birds started their migration.
Apparently it was a very seasonally warm fall and early winter further north. And so that kept a lot of those birds up co-mingling with each other further north before they started the fall migration.
So the whole thing kind of started, and what we’ve seen in our epi curve is, really that that whole curve shifted about 30 days or so, before we started to see things.
So other than that, I think that this version of the virus has continued to behave as we’ve seen in the previous years.
…
Alex Turner, USDA [00:55:20]
If you kind of think of the– an epi curve as the number of cases over a certain span of time, that whole curve probably shifts that same 30 days to the right.
So if it seems like it was a late start, we would anticipate being kind of a late finish to that, as well as the decrease starts to wind down from the amount of virus that’s in the environment from the wild birds that have migrated.
So now that they are predominantly kind of where they’re going to be for the winter, there’s a little bit less of that migratory movement and exposure, but also we’re working through the poultry cases that we have, and those poultry cases would be expected to kind of have that curve decrease and hit the down slope of that curve a little bit later as well.
1 Are you able to say how many cat infections that FDA is aware of linked to contaminated food?
The FDA is aware of reports of death or illness associated with uncooked food in 13 domestic cats in eight households, 1 exotic cat in one household, and an unknown number of animals at two sanctuaries for large felids.
2 Also, has FDA been able to trace back the source of the contamination in any of the outbreaks? It wasn’t clear to me from yesterday’s press call.
The FDA is in the process of tracing back the sources of food that the ill animals ate to determine possible scenarios for how and when these products were contaminated. Testing is underway and can take several weeks for full results. For some of the reported illnesses, traceback may not be possible, due to a lack of complete information about what the animals ate, or because the food they ate is no longer available for testing.
We hold our suppliers to the highest expectations and standards of food safety. Prior to this inspection, and unrelated to its findings, McDonald’s stopped sourcing from Taylor Farms’ Colorado Springs facility.
You can read more about the swift action the company took during last year’s outbreak on our newsroom: https://corporate.mcdonalds.com/corpmcd/our-stories/article/always-putting-food-safety-first.html
Taylor Farms is confident in our best-in-class food safety processes, and in turn, the quality and safety of our products. As is common following an inspection, FDA issued observations of conditions that could be improved at one of our facilities. We immediately took steps to address the three observations made in the report and responded with our corrective actions.
The FDA has since classified this inspection as “voluntary action indicated,” meaning the agency “is not prepared to take or recommend any administrative or regulatory action.” This is consistent with the fact that no illnesses or public health threat has been linked to these observations.
We know that maintaining trust with our customers and consumers is essential and we are committed to preserving that trust. Our vision of creating healthy lives continues to be important, and we remain deeply committed to delivering the safest, healthiest fresh foods possible to our customers.
There has not been any additional cases linked to the Northwest Naturals recall. This is an evolving situation that the FDA will continue to keep the public and companies updated on. The FDA continues to recommend avoiding feeding pets any products from affected farms, if those products have not been thoroughly cooked or pasteurized to inactivate the virus. Animals should also be kept from hunting and eating wild birds.
I wanted to check in to ask if the department has heard of any additional animal cases or deaths were identified linked to the Northwest Naturals product that was recalled? Also, do you know if the genotype was B3.13 or D1.1 in the pet food?
…
The FDA has taken over as lead agency on the Northwest Natural recall. For updates, please contact the FDA.
The genome found in the Northwest Naturals product was B3.13.
Calley Means [00:28:21]
What do we do? I don’t think the plan is any bans to start. I don’t think we need to talk about banning food. Although I do think things like high fructose corn syrup, we might need to get there eventually, but I think phase one of MAHA is just getting to the truth and there’s two areas what I recommend.
The USDA nutrition guidelines are up for review early in Trump’s term. Right now, the USDA nutrition guidelines recommend added sugar for two year olds. And they say that ultra processed food is healthy. Literally you can’t even make this up.
So 19 out of the 20 advisors on the USDA nutrition guideline committee, which set standards for our kids are paid for by food or pharma companies.
So President Trump and Bobby have the opportunity to throw the corrupt recommendations of the Biden administration, which say ultra processed food could be healthy, throw those in the trash and issue simple guidelines.
And it’s, I think conservative, before we get in into any bans, Americans should have the truth. This scientists should give the truth.
One problem with the guidelines is they take into DEI parameters. They actually say, well, we care about affordability. We care about the Americans can only afford all to process food.
That’s not the scientists job. The nutrition guidelines should say what American children should be eating, which is avoiding all added sugar and eating whole food. That’s their job to say.
It’s policymakers job then to do what they will with that information. But the first step is we need truth from our scientists.
Question [00:16:05]
What are the top reforms, like if you were going to give me line items, okay, that could actually shift this and kind of restore a more reasonable set of incentive structures?
Calley Means [00:16:17]
Directing the NIH to no longer be a pharmaceutical R and D factory. Propelling research, directing them to study what glyphosate is doing, studying what atrazine is doing, other food chemicals that we allow that no other country allows.
Studying various pharmaceutical standards. Doing, reproducing FDA studies that are underlying the built trillions of dollars we spend on pharmaceutical products. So reproducing studies, getting to the root cause, getting the science right.
Throughout the orgs, but particularly the FDA, getting conflicts of interest out of the agencies. Just why is the FDA funded by pharma? 75% of drug approval budget is funded by pharma. Why don’t people have access to better diagnostic technologies?
Let’s let patients work with their doctors. Let’s have Medicare money go to food, if somebody’s obese, instead of straight to Ozempic. So loosening up, making flexible these Medicare, Medicaid standards to help patients make the best decisions with their doctors.
So what are the principles? Transparency, reducing conflicts, flexibility for patients, medical freedom, trusting patients. Those are the principles that are gonna be guiding a flurry of agency actions from Bobby Kennedy.
…
Calley Means [00:24:17]
I’ve been an informal advisor. I’ve been helping however I can.
I mean, my good friends, Jay Bhattacharya, and Marty Makary, are going to be leading the NIH and FDA. Dr. Oz is, has become, a great ally and friend.
I mean, we’ve got great people in there. I’m trying to support them however I possibly can, you know, during this very quick transition period.
And I don’t have any announcements on specifically what I’m going to be doing.
Of the 7 cats confirmed with H5 Bird Flu in LA County, 5 of them have been linked to Raw Farm, LLC milk product and 1 has been linked to Monarch Raw Pet Food. The source of infection for the 7th cat is still under investigation.
Please note additional cats in households with these confirmed cases may have fallen ill or died, but testing was not possible for all cats.
There has been no clear demonstration of transmission of H5 bird flu virus from a sick cat to another cat or animal in these cases, nor have there been any known cases of transmission of H5 bird flu from cat to human in these cases. We strongly recommend that pet owners do not consume nor feed their pets raw milk, raw dairy, raw meat, raw poultry, or raw pet food.
Mandy Cohen, CDC [00:14:38]
I think CDC has been on this journey to learn a lot of lessons from the COVID pandemic.
Look, we know that there were ways in which CDC did not do what, all of what it needed to do. We’ve taken accountability for that, particularly in the lab space, in the communication space.
And, you know, I– we have very much, and I personally have done a lot of listening and learning. And I think the organization has as well.
And so what I’m hopeful for the team that is coming to HHS, coming to CDC, is to make sure that they know this to your point, the baseline, what is the status of things at CDC right now?
And of course there needs more improvement. We should always be an improving learning organization, but where are we?
And I just wrote an op-ed in the Financial Times where the headline was, right, CDC needs a scalpel, not an axe.
And so what, because I want folks to know the improvements we’ve made.
…
Mandy Cohen, CDC [00:21:37]
I’m proud of the work. We’re not done. We have more to do, but I think we’ve learned a lot.
And I want to make sure, again, the incoming team knows that the team that they remember in the CDC, that they interacted with in 2020, is not the same organization that we are now.
And there’s always more to do.
…
Mandy Cohen, CDC [00:30:00]
So as we think about what are the right structures to bring people and keep and retain your workforce, I want to make sure we’re thinking about it again, not with broad brushes, but to be specific.
So we are very lucky to have some incredible data scientists, that folks who are working on our data. They may reside in California, to do that work because they have done great things in their first parts of their career. And then they come to CDC to give back, to do public service, but they’re not willing to move their family. I want that talent.
I want that talent at CDC. We should want it to protect. So just, we need to think about, as we think about making sure we can retain the talented workforce that we need, not everything can be painted with one broad brush.
And I will say though, it’s hard to– you don’t do lab work from home. Our team’s been in, doing the work in person, for a very long time. And that hasn’t changed.
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Mandy Cohen, CDC [00:46:09]
We take our job very seriously at putting out solid information, but part of what we have to do is also move faster. And share information. But we need to do it in a way, like this is what I know today that may be different. Right? We’re trying,
I hope folks are seeing us communicate differently about avian flu. Like this is what we know today, which is there’s no human to human spread that we have vaccine candidates ready, that we are, you know, ready and prepared.
However, we’ve all learned that these viruses change. And so I want folks to also hear the statement that things could change in the future, and that’s not making public health wrong now. Right. That doesn’t mean we made some mistake now. It just means things change. And then you have to react to those changes and make different.
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Mandy Cohen, CDC [00:47:23]
I do want to push back a little on the premise that, on the trust premise, because actually we see people polled, quarter over quarter on trust in CDC. And I’m really proud that actually over the last 18 months, we’ve seen that trust in CDC go back up.
And I think it’s because we’re communicating differently. We’re focused on priorities that matter for people in their everyday lives.
And so I think we’re on that journey every day. We rebuild trust.
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Mandy Cohen, CDC [00:59:16]
We have been working on this issue for a long time, meaning that we have very different infrastructure around avian flu than we have almost on any other pandemic potential pathogen.
We, you know, we have waste water infrastructure. We have the ability to see into our emergency rooms. We have laboratory tests that are not just in public health, but are in the commercial labs already. We have Tamiflu and a treatment that maps to the pathogen. We have vaccine candidates, not just candidates. We also have 5 million doses, already in our stockpile that going up to 10 million.
But that all said, right, those are a lot of great things like we already, but we have to stay ahead of the virus. As we were saying, things can change. And it doesn’t mean we didn’t do all the right things right now to be prepared. It just means the virus can change. Which means then we have to make sure that our therapies and our vaccines still map to those changes in the virus.
So we do not– so the things that I look at and want to be evaluating, in terms of do we need to step up and do something? Is there human to human transmission? No. We haven’t seen that yet, but if we were to see that that is a change.
Are we seeing severity of disease? Now we’ve had this one case where it was, we know it was from a wild bird, from a bird flock. And an older gentleman did pass. That was our first death, but all of the other cases have been very mild, like not even hospitalized, right. Some pink eye.
So we look at severity of disease and we look at the genetics, are the genetics changing. And do we know if they map.
All of that work? That’s hard like to be able to do that assessment work over and over. We do it literally daily. Are– we’re looking at it over and over and over. So we cannot to your point have a ball drop because we need to continually assess.
And so if there was a change in any one of those things, then we would want to think about stepping up our work. And I– and then we need to make sure that the incoming team knows that there is that potential, right? That of the things that I worry about, what could create the next pandemic avian flu of course, is at the top of the list. It’s why we’ve been focused on it for 20 years. We’ve been watching it for a long time.
And now we have more of that circulating in our animal population than we have seen before, which means more exposure for humans, right. Just more opportunity.
And so, again, we’re a low probability event, but could have outsized impact. So you need to highly manage some of these big impact, even low probability events. Got to be ready. You gotta keep that funding there to do this important work.
Peter Marks, FDA [00:11:15]
One of the issues comes up about is how often should we change these vaccine strains? And there are really some practical considerations that limit our ability to change vaccine composition.
One of them is just manufacturing constraints. You can only change the process so many times, and because there’s a whole process involved, and that limits things.
And the other issue though, it’s true, is that we, it’s hard to get data to suggest when you should actually do so, because in many cases, as we’ve seen already with the XEC variant, an existing vaccine seems to cover them pretty well. So you don’t want to change until you have data that suggests that your current vaccine is not actually working well.
So this is some of the challenges that we deal with.
Right now we are anticipating that we will continue to update these vaccines and we’ll be choosing a strain next May, June for next year.
With the obvious caveat that if something were to materialize that were a very serious escape variant, we could potentially mobilize to pick a variant more rapidly in a similar way that we’ve done for influenza viruses in the past, where, in part, because of the rapidity of the mRNA process, it could potentially only take a few months before we could have a new vaccine, if we needed to deploy one on the order of about three months, if it were necessary.
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Demetre Daskalakis, CDC [00:27:32]
So this is a comparison using our national immunization survey of what we are seeing among older adults.
This is 75 plus in the United States this year in terms of vaccination coverage. The light blue line is last season. So 2023 and 24. And you can see that we plateaued somewhere around 40% for coverage all said and done in the season.
And so when you are looking at this slide, a couple things are notable.
One because of the earlier availability of vaccine, these individuals were able to start getting vaccinated in early September rather than late September. And we are seeing climbs that are higher than what we saw last year. So in fact, today we’re at about 49%, which is higher than the plateau for last year. So that is a really encouraging trend.
And that is especially encouraging, given the data that I showed you previously about the risk of death and hospitalization for individuals who are more advanced in years. And we’re going to define that, for the purpose of this presentation as over 75.
So there’s a lot of reasons that this may be going on.
Again, first it could be because of COVID vaccines were available several weeks earlier this season. That may mean that folks were able to sync this closer to their flu vaccine.
Second, our early data from September suggest that more older adults are receiving both of these together. So in fact, we do have some data that COVID and flu vaccines, co-administration at least in pharmacies also appears to be increased compared to last year.
And then additionally, we are seeing, in our national immunization survey from October that older adults have increased concern about COVID 19. So the findings that we have about severe outcomes, like those are passing over to them because of their concern. They have a greater intention to receive the vaccine.
And then lastly, because of the work that you do, healthcare providers are increasingly recommending the COVID 19 vaccine to this population. And so all really important and also really important to protect one population that may have a risk of some of the worst outcomes of COVID 19.
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Question [00:38:33]
Do you have any forecasting when it’s likely that the pediatric COVID 19 vaccines will get full FDA approval?
Peter Marks, FDA [00:38:40]
It’s always, this is all obviously commercial confidential information, but I would suspect that we’re looking at something that’s on the matter of months away, not years away.
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Question [00:44:09]
Peter, can you comment on the LP.8.1 variant? Do we know how it compares with XEC and whether we expect different protection?
Peter Marks, FDA [00:44:19]
So we’ll need to get that. That’s one where we’re going to need to get data.
And that’s part of what I was talking about. This challenge for us is to keep up with this.
We do keep up, which is that as we get these variants, we start to test them and get them into the testing process.
But again, we will keep– and we’ll keep chasing them.
So far we’ve been pretty lucky in finding that these have been generally covered by the current strains that we’re covering with with either JN.1 or KP.2, but we’ll keep testing.
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Question [00:52:32]
There have been some concerns about vaccine being available in the summer surge of disease. Do we foresee any further changes in kind of the timing of our recommendations, authorization of new seasonal vaccine for COVID vaccine going forward?
Peter Marks, FDA [00:52:51]
Yeah, so, I mean, this is something that we will, this is why we monitor the epidemiology pretty closely.
I think if we were to, as we come into the May June timeframe, if we were to start to see a surge, with a new variant that we did not think was well covered, we might try to move up as much as we could the availability of the next season’s vaccine.
So there’s a little bit of an art to this still because it’s not perfect seasonality as Dr. Daskalakis showed. So we’re just gonna have to watch this closely.
We may get lucky, and if there’s a summer surge, it’ll be with the same, something that’s covered well with the same vaccine. If not, we have this opportunity, particularly with the mRNA vaccine technology to really crank out vaccine pretty quickly, in order to try to address an emerging variant a little sooner.
Of the 7 cats confirmed with H5 Bird Flu in LA County, 5 of them have been linked to Raw Farm, LLC milk product and 1 has been linked to Monarch Raw Pet Food. The source of infection for the 7th cat is still under investigation.
Please note additional cats in households with these confirmed cases may have fallen ill or died, but testing was not possible for all cats.
There has been no clear demonstration of transmission of H5 bird flu virus from a sick cat to another cat or animal in these cases, nor have there been any known cases of transmission of H5 bird flu from cat to human in these cases. We strongly recommend that pet owners do not consume nor feed their pets raw milk, raw dairy, raw meat, raw poultry, or raw pet food.
1) I know several states have reported large increases in norovirus outbreaks compared to previous years. Is that the case in Idaho?
We have observed a considerable increase in the cases of norovirus reported during 2024 compared with previous years.
2) Has Idaho also seen an increase in GII.17 outbreaks, as has been reported elsewhere?
We don’t have enough laboratory characterization data to confirm whether the increase in cases is caused by the norovirus GII.17 strain.
2025-01-08_fda_foia-2023-1766_enc4_300.pdf
2025-01-08_fda_foia-2023-1766_enc3_300.pdf
We do indeed see that there is a genotype of norovirus (GII17) that seems to become dominant this season. It also has been observed in Europe. There is insufficient surveillance (in my view) to really make the case that this is causing an increase in the number of cases, as we have a lot of norovirus infections each winter and the surveillance is rather patchy.
What we are seeing has happened before for noroviruses. Noroviruses are very diverse. Based on the virus composition, they are grouped into genotypes. Over the past decade, genotype GII4 viruses have been observed most often as causes of outbreaks, for instance (although if you do more in depth studies, a greater diversity of viruses is seen). Recently, viruses of a different genotype, GII17, have started to take over. It is possible that that is associated with an increase in illness reports, but we would need studies to actually proof that that is the case.
The new dominant strain is norovirus GII.17[P17] – speaking out loud, you would say “G two seventeen, P seventeen.” The previous dominant strain was norovirus GII.4 Sydney[P16].
I checked with Dr. Roberts, who says the names of specific subtypes of norovirus are usually only helpful for epidemiologists and folks that do research on norovirus. For all intents and purposes, there is little/no difference between norovirus strains. They all cause the same symptoms, have the same incubation period and length of illness, etc. The primary reason we keep track of these strains is so we know what is circulating so that when a new strain pops up like this one, we can catch it. Historically, a new strain can be associated with more cases and outbreaks, but it’s not because new strains cause new symptoms or have new features. It can be because folks in the community will not have any immunity to a new strain, making it easier to spread and easier to make more people sick.
It does not change any recommendations about prevention or spread. It just means we have a robust outbreak season and therefore an opportunity to really emphasize the importance of handwashing, staying home while sick and until at least 48 hours after recovery, etc.
Here are the latest data (September 1, 2024 – December 31, 2024 uploaded to CaliciNet https://www.cdc.gov/norovirus/php/reporting/calicinet-data.html which is our national norovirus surveillance system based on lab-data including typing of the viruses, which during the last couple of months is dominated by GII.17. During previous norovirus seasons (since 2012/2013), GII.4 Sydney was the predominant norovirus strain associated with at least 50-60% of all norovirus outbreaks every year. It is too early to tell if this strain is associated with more severe norovirus disease but likely lower population immunity is the reason for the early surge of an otherwise seasonal increase of this virus. Hope this helps.
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Very helpful, thank you. If you’ll permit a follow up: do you know if there is any regional difference for GII.17[P17]’s dominance this season so far, or does it appear to be prevalent around the country?
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It’s everywhere including on cruise ship outbreaks
The FDA and state authorities routinely work together to surveil the animal food supply, including pet food. This includes conducting risk-based facility inspections and collecting animal food samples to help ensure safety. The FDA may also collect samples “for cause,” such as when a pet food is suspected of being associated with human or animal illness. State authorities also regularly collect samples from retail settings and share test results with the agency. HPAI is an emerging contaminant in animal food. Analytical capacity is limited and pathogens like H5N1 can be difficult to detect because they might not be evenly distributed throughout the product (increasing the possibility of a false negative result).
Part of a pet food manufacturer’s responsibility is to bring a safe, wholesome product to market that is not adulterated under the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act. As we learn more about the transmission of H5N1 in animal food, there are several practices that the FDA is encouraging pet food manufacturers and others in the supply chain to use to prevent HPAI transmission through animal food. These practices could include seeking poultry from flocks that are documented as having remained healthy throughout processing, and taking processing steps, such as heat treatment, that are capable of inactivating viruses and other hazards.
All recent detections of H5N1 in cats had these things in common: the infected cats ate wild birds, unpasteurized milk, raw poultry, and/or raw poultry pet food. We know that cats are particularly sensitive to HPAI, and that very young, very old or immune-compromised animals are at greater risk of infection. The FDA continues to recommend that consumers avoid feeding pets any products that are recalled or from affected farms if those products have not been thoroughly cooked or pasteurized to inactivate the virus. If consumers are unsure of the origin of those products, it’s safest to follow the USDA guidelines for handling and thorough cooking before feeding. Animals should also be kept from hunting and eating wild birds.
Hi, Alexander: Below please find a graph showing the OHSU Health system daily census for patients with the flu, from 11/1/2018 to present. You can see that in Dec. 2022, we also had a very large spike in flu cases, but this year has been significantly higher than last year. Below the graph is a chart with real numbers from the different facilities that make up OHSU Health. You can see that in 2023, the system treated 251 cases of flu, and in 2024, it jumped to 1,101 cases.
In 2022, the combination of RSV, flu and COVID led to a public health emergency and crisis standards of care among hospitals in the region. We have not experienced that, and do not currently expect to, this year.
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One more piece of data that I just received to home in on just the OHSU hospital emergency department: The ED saw a big jump from 2023 in December alone.
Data from the NoroSTAT network are typically released monthly online; we expect to release the next update mid-month.
NoroSTAT figures represent the total number of suspected and confirmed norovirus outbreaks reported each week to CDC by the state health departments in Alabama, Colorado, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Nebraska, New Mexico, North Carolina, Ohio, Oregon, South Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia, and Wisconsin through the National Outbreak Reporting System (NORS). CDC does not routinely publish the location of norovirus outbreaks and defers to state and local health departments for additional data and messaging on outbreaks within their jurisdictions.